Short run CD pressings...

topic posted Tue, August 12, 2008 - 10:44 AM by  Unsubscribed
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I've been shopping around for where to have my next two CDs made. I'm doing small runs of 200-500 and I want full-color on-disc printing and *nice* packaging (not jewel boxes with crappy looking inkjet printed inserts). The best pricing and packaging options for small runs I have found is this company located in the Santa Cruz area www.mastertrack.com/index.html and I wonder of any of you musicians have dealt with this company (Rick?). I'm concerned about the quality control of the CD pressings (don't wanna end up with a lot of coasters and angry buyers)...
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  • Re: Short run CD pressings...

    Tue, August 12, 2008 - 12:10 PM
    Don't know them, unless it is a new name for Bruce Bellochio's CD duplicating business.
    I've had great luck with him but I dont' know if he does small pressings.

    There have been numerous discussions at LoopersDelight.com on this subject and everyone has been using
    a service that charges a flat rate (maybe $2/disc) for ANY sized run from 2-2,000.

    In my experience, it's far better to pay more for far less and not have 400 CDs taking up space if you can't sell
    1,000.

    I forget the company name but a quick search of the Loopers Delight archives will find it quickly.
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      Re: Short run CD pressings...

      Tue, August 12, 2008 - 2:40 PM
      "In my experience, it's far better to pay more for far less and not have 400 CDs taking up space if you can't sell 1,000"

      Yep. I learned that lesson with my first CD. Face it, the CDs we put out are gonna end up as landfill sooner or later... but it'd be nice if they all get into the hands and ears of listeners before they reach their eventual non-biodegradable destination!

      I have contacted the company I listed above and will be receiving some sample product in the mail shortly. If I decide to go with them and get my discs pressed there (my two next albums are coming out digitally on a new label but if I want actual physical pressings I have to do that myself), I will repost here with my experiences...
      • Re: Short run CD pressings...

        Tue, August 12, 2008 - 6:54 PM
        Well, the impetus for ordering larger numbers of CDs , ostensibly, is that it
        lowers the price point and raises the profit margins.

        The difference between ordering individual numbers of CDs is only about
        $2 to $1.................though that is double the price, all CDs can be sold for
        between $5 and $15 apiece so there is a profit margin in everyone sold and
        NO LOSS MARGIN.

        I think it's worth it, and furthermore, I think as you pointed out, that it's more ecological
        to do it this way in the long run.

        Best of luck whatever you decide and I look forward to hearing your results.

        yours, Rick
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          Re: Short run CD pressings...

          Tue, August 12, 2008 - 8:21 PM
          Of course, one thing I failed to mention is that when you order a production of 1000 CDs you are getting *CD* discs, whereas the places that do small runs are *CD-R* discs. That matters to some people, I guess... some distributors or retailers won't take CD-Rs, or some consumers claim that their players don't play them (maybe true if they are really old CD players). I am told that the primary reason it costs almost the same to do 1000 as 500 is in the printing process as opposed to the pressing of discs. I'd much rather pay twice the price per unit for 500 and sell or comp all of them, than to get a good deal on 1000 and then be stuck looking at all the product that no one wants a year from now. But if a label came to me with a deal offer and wanted to press up 1000 CDs of one of my albums, I don't think I'd refuse on ecological grounds...

          The most ecological solution is to do what Jane Siberry and other artists have chosen to do and stop releasing physical product entirely, in favor of downloads, but then there are consumers who dislike compressed audio formats and as far as I know, all the major download distributors only offer compressed music files for sale. The reason I feel the need to get actual discs pressed with packages and all is twofold. One, I like to be able to hold something in my hand and show it to someone with the sense of pride that I made it, and somehow you don't get that sense of creative accomplishment when all you've got to show is a link on a computer screen where someone can go pay to download your music if they want. More importantly, I want CDs I can give to friends, comp out to radio and press people, and sell at gigs. So, I will be personally responsible for the production of more *stuff* that uses lots of resources and fossil fuel energy in the manufacture and distribution of it, and ends up as landfill, to satisfy my creative impulses. And I will console myself with the excuse that, hey, at least the music I will put out there is *good* music and not commercial crap like all the millions of CDs that get released and marketed by the tens of thousands of lame American Idol and MTV wannabes each year...
          • Re: Short run CD pressings...

            Fri, August 15, 2008 - 12:16 AM
            Honestly, from my experience, and I've been travelling all over Europe and the UK as well as the US is
            that if you have really nice artwork, there is very, very little difference between CDRs and CDs.

            You have to seriously search to find a CD player or car stereo that won't play them.
            This was an issue 8 years ago but not now, I promise you.

            It's really down to the artwork , isn't it?
            I still believe in having something physical that you can look at.

            The other thing is what distributors and retailers are you talking about? It's virtually impossible to get
            distributiong and placement in anything other than record stores where ;you actually know that
            people who work there and they smile on your art.

            These days, to be really realistic, you are going to be selling your CDs (or giving them away) to people you either want to get interested in your music or who are already fans from live or radio play.

            Honestly, Ferrara, make your art work really excellent and noone will know or care whether your music is on CD-R or commercial CDs.
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              Re: Short run CD pressings...

              Fri, August 15, 2008 - 10:58 AM
              You're absolutely right, Rick. And I happen to be working with a professional graphic designer who is a fellow experimental musician, good friend, and has a new startup label (he's recently been designing stuff for David Byrne among others).

              And I got the samples from the Mastertrack company, and they are totally professional looking digipaks and ecosleeve designs. Back in the old days you could tell a CD-R from a regular CD because they had a blue tint to the data side. Now it's impossible to tell the two formats apart, except maybe to the eyes of a record store employee who knows what to look for. I don't know how these guys at Mastertrack do it, but they can print and press CDs with the same packaging, look and feel of big manufacturing runs, but in small quantities at reasonable prices. Disc Makers doesn't come close. I am definitely going to do business with this company, and I'll repost once I've got the finished products in hand.

              When I wrote to a sales rep about the CD-R issues, he gave me this informative reply:

              "Duplication is a process that we use for small runs and quick turns.
              Replication is a process that is used for runs of 1000+.
              Since our specialty is small runs and quick turns we use duplication manufacturing

              I have found some more info below.

              Disc replication is the process of creating a CD or DVD directly from plastic and other raw materials. From your master disc we create a “glass master” which in turn is used to form an injection mold (stamper) through which discs with embedded content are produced.

              Disc duplication refers to burning content on a pre-manufactured blank CD-R or DVD-R. We apply your artwork using a thermal, silkscreen or other high quality, on-disc printing process. We perform a number of pre-production quality tests on your master and our duplicating equipment performs additional checks during production."
              • Re: Short run CD pressings...

                Tue, August 19, 2008 - 1:37 AM
                Hey Ferrara, have you tested these CDRs in different CD players? I'm curious as I'm also shopping around for a similar service and have identical needs to yours. If they're playing well, I'll probably give 'em a call too....

                thanks...
                • Re: Short run CD pressings...

                  Tue, August 19, 2008 - 10:55 AM
                  I've had several short run CD's done at DeNoise in Emeryville. I've never had anyone who purchased one of those CD's contact me to say that it wouldn't play. (but granted, the replication CD artwork printing from DeNoise looks much better than the duplication printing)
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                  Re: Short run CD pressings...

                  Wed, August 20, 2008 - 8:47 AM
                  I haven't submitted the production order yet so I have not got CDs to test (still waiting for the artwork to be done). It would be almost impossible to thoroughly test a pressing as you suggest. Even if you test five or ten copies out of a run of several hundred, there's no way of knowing how many bad copies there might be, and even if you test them on the half dozen or so types of equipment at your disposal, that's no guarantee they'll play on the hundreds of different CD players and computer media players old and new that are typically used for playback currently. This company Mastertrack is a pretty successful and legit operation, registered with the BBB. I'm pretty confident they've got a standardized manufacture practice that guarantees consistent high quality. I'd be more hesitant if I was getting a pressing done by a guy who bought a tower duplicator and set up a business in his kitchen for short run CD pressings.

                  I will post here again once I've got the product...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    Re: Short run CD pressings...

                    Wed, August 20, 2008 - 8:55 AM
                    Before finding out about Mastertrack I was in communication with Tim Oliveira who runs a duping business called HarshNoise.com that is favored by many of the local Bay Area noise and experimental bands and artists (Rent Romus of Edgetone referred me there). Tim was very helpful in negotiating with me to do what I wanted in the quantities I wanted at good prices. His standards of audio duplication are apparently quite high and his on-disc printing looks great. But he only offers the usual limited range of cover options (inserts in jewel boxes). Jewel boxes looked slick and modular when CDs first came onto the market 20 years ago, but now they look ugly and disposable. If I'm gonna bother with pressing up physical product, I want it to look pretty so when someone picks it up from the merch table at a gig or pulls it out of a bin at Amoeba, they want to look it over and check it out.
                    • This post was deleted by Rick
                    • Re: Short run CD pressings...

                      Thu, August 21, 2008 - 7:37 PM
                      for what it's worth:

                      I've sold self produced (and self produced artwork , as well) CDRs
                      for the last 8 years in 15 different countries, exclusively (including my
                      2001 release, LooppooL which netted me a cool
                      $35K of income from both sales and commissions and gigs that
                      came directly from it's release) and
                      I have had only one single return in all that time.

                      I reran it (bad media) and it played on the person's CD player.

                      Honestly, the days of CDRs not playing on CD players is long, long over.......
                      just ask around to all the artists who are successful selling them.

                      Most CD players fall apart in five years anyway, so , though this was a small problem at the turn of the millenium,
                      it is a non-problem now.

                      Noone currently sells a car stereo, boom box or home stereo system that WON'T play CDRs.

                      Just be careful of the media you use. Their is a lot of cheap media out there that doesn't record well.
                      invest in media that has a good reputation, it's worth it (as I found out to my horror after running a batch of
                      50 CDs once that had all kinds of digital errors in them).......luckily I discovered the bad run before I sent it out there.

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                        Re: Short run CD pressings...

                        Thu, August 21, 2008 - 8:40 PM
                        I've always bought the good brands of CD-R such as Maxell and TDK for my own use (and the high-grade Apogee brand at two bucks a disc for my precious masters). I'd tend to trust that any of the reputable duping businesses out there probably use good blanks as well, since they want happy customers and repeat business. if I was thinking about getting some discs duped and the service was offering them at really cheap prices, I'd be inclined to suspect they were using crappy media and steer my business elsewhere...

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